In reality, this could have been a Top 14 Draft Picks Pax has screwed up because the only one he got right - D. Rose - was by default.
10. Omer Asik - Turkey
36th Overall, Second Round
2008
36th Overall, Second Round
2008
What the Bulls need desperately now, and what they've needed since Pax took over, is a big man down low to provide some points and defense in the paint. So instead of trying to take a player able to contribute immediately, Pax goes for the Turkish Asik. A kid who won't even sniff the NBA for a few years and has missed the majority of his Turkish team's season due to injury.
(He's the one on the right in case you were interested)
9. Jackson Vroman - Iowa State
31st Overall, Second Round
2004
2004
Vroman is currently playing for BC Lietuvos Rytas of Lithuania and can brag to his friends about the career high 15 points he scored in the Association.
Worse part about that is it wasn't even for the Bulls.
8. JamesOn Curry - Oklahoma State
51st Overall, 2nd Round
2007
2007
Pax never shies away from a project and Curry was no exception.In 2004 Curry was arrested and charged with two counts of possession with intent to sell and deliver marijuana, two counts of sale and delivery of marijuana, and two counts of sale, possession, and delivery of a controlled substance.
Curry never played in a regular season NBA game and is currently playing in France after bouncing around the NBDL.
7. Aaron Gray - Pittsburgh
49th Overall, 2nd Round
2007
He's progressed in his short time with the Bulls and may fit the bill for the 'Goofy White Center' role every championship team needs. But he's too soft in the paint, too slow to run with Derrick Rose and will forever be relegated to bench duty. He's more valuable to the team because of the six fouls he's allotted every night per league rules.
6. Mario Austin - Mississippi State
36th Overall, 2nd Round
2003
In Pax's first draft, he went after the tantalizing Austin and ended up getting a lifetime's worth of headache's in return.
I'll let this ancient Blog-a-Bull piece sum up what happened:
"Austin, a 6-9 power forward, was drafted by the Bulls in the second round of the 2003 NBA draft. When he didn’t catch on with the team after playing in the Bulls’ summer camp last year, Austin signed a $1.15 million, two-year contract with CSKA, which he says Duffy misled him into signing, a claim Duffy denies."
What followed was a series of he said, she said arguments that Pax got dragged into. Not a good indication of things to come.
5. Joakim Noah - Florida
9th Overall Pick
2007
Truthfully, Pax didn't have much to choose from with this pick. But looking back, anyone may have been better than Noah.
He's had multiple outbursts that have caused harm to the team and has already been arrested for smoking a doobie while sitting on a curb in Florida. One night he's playing like a maniac and others he looks completely lost.
4. Thabo Sefolosha - Switzerland
13th Overall Pick
2006
The Swiss Jordan had high praise from scouts coming out of the Alps. He's got the length to become a lock down defender and enough quickness to run the break. However, Sefolosha never put the entire package together and is a turnover machine the likes of which this league has ever seen.
Though his TTCS provided nickname, Snuffleupagus, is still a fan favorite.
3. Ben Gordon - University of Connecticut
3rd Overall Pick
2004
There's no denying that Gordon can light up the scoreboard when he's on one of his patented hot streaks. Yet, with the third overall pick we'd expect to see a lot more in other aspects of the game. You know, play a little defense, share the ball and generally just become a solid basketball player.
Instead, Gordon is content to just chuck it up whenever it touches his hands and has the uncanny ability to completely ignore teammates at the most crucial situations.
2. Luol Deng - Duke
7th Overall Pick
2004
The other half of the 2004 draft day disaster engineered by Pax himself.
Touted as the next big thing to come out of the Windy City, Deng seemed to be on his way to becoming as some scouts put it, one of the top ten players in the NBA (future list?). And after receiving an exorbitant six-year, $71 million contract from the Bulls, his career started to sink faster than the Titanic.
He's lost in My Coach Vinnie's offense and doesn't look to be a good fit alongside Rose. Perhaps the greatest contribution he could have made to the Bulls was being a good soldier and leaving town in a deal for Kobe Bryant.
But Pax screwed that one up too. Go figure.
1. Tyrus Thomas - LSU
4th Overall Pick
2006
On a draft day trade, the Bulls secured the rights for Thomas from the Trailblazers in exchange for LaMarcus Aldridge.
Think Pax wouldn't want that one back?
Ty-Rise has teased with his freakish abilities, but can't string a season together in which he maximizes his potential. He plays out of control and confuses that with effort. He tries to throw up jump shots when his greatest strengths lie underneath the rim.
Back in 2004, the last thing the Bulls needed was another project. What they did need was a back to the basket, sweet shooting big man like Aldridge.
But now they're stuck with Thomas and his constant temper tantrums. This is a relationship that won't end well for either side.
22 comments:
Pax, you were a great Bull and you were smart to have hired Skiles...the real reason the Bulls played hard and made the playoffs. Your evaluation of draft talent stinks, and your extensions to Deng and Hinrich are ridiculous. Maybe we can get Colangelo.
I disagree with this list for a number of reasons. Aaron Gray and Thabo Sefolosha were both great picks. You want shaq in the second round? Or Iguodala at the 16 spot (where we got thabo)? All those other second rounders were just that, second rounders. If you get any kind of meaningful minutes from them it was a good pick. Jury is still out on deng and gordon, but with the amount o fbusts there are at the top of drafts, they are fine for where they were drafted. TT and Noah suck.
That last commenter is right, in the second round, 5 out of every 6 guys don't really pan out, and it's really just luck of the draw if you find a steal like Gilbert Arenas/Manu Ginobli/Paul Milsalp.
And for a 49th overall pick, Gray is pretty damn good, and no way should he be on this list
Blame Paxson all you want for picking Tyrus, signing Wallace, and not trading his young core for a great player like Kobe, but his drafting is only a small part of the reason why the Bulls are in such a mess
Gents, like I said in the opening, he's only made fifteen draft picks.
Did I expect Pax to get first round talent out of the second round?
Absolutely not.
Hindsight is 20/20 and if you think for one minute I expected Pax to hit on every one of his picks, than you are sadly mistaken.
The entire point of this list has been illustrated by your comments:
You're defending Aaron Gray and Thabo Sefolosha instead of the Top 3 on this list: who also just happen to be the highest picks Pax has had during his tenure as GM (other than D. Rose).
I place little to no importance on the second round, but when you whiff that badly on the first we're going to have a problem.
This is about the dumbest post I have seen. Pax barely has had more than ten draft picks. Specific problems: How can you call Gray a bad 2nd round pick if he's going to be around for years, and he will. He'd be a bad 1st rounder. Ty Thomas #1! It's too early to say that and he's starting to put up numbers. Sefalosha was not drafted nearly high enough to call him a bust yet. Deng should not be so high on the list either. Besides, I took a look at the 2007 draft (Noah) and I had a hard time finding someone drafted in the next 10 whom I'd rather have right now, even though I hated the pick then and now. All that said, I'm pretty disappointed in Pax too. The team is a bunch of misfit parts. They are in a situation that's hard to fix, given how hard it is to trade in the NBA.
"Besides, I took a look at the 2007 draft (Noah) and I had a hard time finding someone drafted in the next 10 whom I'd rather have right now, even though I hated the pick then and now."
2007 NBA Draft Picks I'd rather have that were selected in the first round after Noah:
Spencer Hawes
Thaddeus Young
Al Thornton
Rodney Stuckey
Nick Young
All were selected within ten picks of Joakim Noah, and if you extend that out to fifteen picks, I'll take:
Daquean Cook
Wilson Chandler
Rudy Fernandez
You can have Noah.
How can you call these bad picks without referencing what the GOOD pick would have been? Deng was a bad pick? OK, prove it by saying who should have been taken instead and why. Gordon was all wrong? Again, who was a better choice at that spot? All you are doing is critiquing the players in isolation, not the pick in the context of the other options.
It's not that I think you are wrong that these players are disappointing, it's that I think you have mislabeled what you are doing here.
As much as I love Paxson for everything he did for us as a player, he needs to be fired right now! He has swung and missed on EVERY major decision since becoming GM. Wouldn't trade the great Donyell Marshall to move up to the fifth spot in the draft to draft Dwayne Wade. Drafted Thomas instead of Aldridge, drafted Noah instead of Hawes, wouldn't trade either Deng or Gordon for Pau Gasol who is one of the best post players in the league and exactly what we need and wouldn't include Deng in order to trade for Kobe Bryant who is the best player since Michael Jordan. When your GM can't make the right decisions (or is afraid to) to make your team better, he must be fired. RIGHT NOW!!
The last thing the Bulls needed was another mediocre shooting guard (Nick Young). And Noah and Gray both have more rebounds per minute and a much higher FG% than Spencer Hawes.
I'd give Pax a "C+" overall for his drafts.
While it is easy to attack people, your attacks also miss the mark. Luol Deng is a solid NBA player and it is not his fault that VDN doesn't know how to utilize him to his full potential. He destroyed the HEAT in the playoffs. Ben Gordon is a unique talent and your inclusion of him in a "top 10 worst pick" list is a joke. Grow up and stop tearing down. You would have done no better (and I'm sure you'd have done worse).
"The last thing the Bulls needed was another mediocre shooting guard (Nick Young). And Noah and Gray both have more rebounds per minute and a much higher FG% than Spencer Hawes."
What about Al Thornton or Rodney Stuckey?
Would you take them over Noah?
Al Thorton is horrible. He's a chucker with no conscious very much like Mr. Gordon. Ball hogger, easily beat on D.
This had to be the dumbest list ever. Deng as number 2? phx gave him to us for what amounted to the 21st pick in the next years draft pretty good value id say.Ben gordon was a good pick ideally you want a superstar at number 3 but if you look at the draft who wouldve been better? iggy is taller but is his production that much better than bg?If you want blame pax for anything i would blame his trades not his drafts. ALL the ben gordon haters wont realize his value to this team untill he is gone. when its kirk and rose and thabo shooting err i mean bricking those 20 footers everybody will be saying we need a guy who can make a jumper.
btw, Jackson Vroman isnt currently playing for Lietuvos Rytas. He played for them last season. I think he is currently recovering from an injury
http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/ulebcup/competition/teams/showteam?clubcode=LIE
You really dont know much about evaluating draft picks do you?
You say picking Aaron Gray and JamesOn Curry were bad moves. But what other players available would you have rather he picked at their spot? Other than Ramon Sessions (bulls have enough guards) I dont think anyone selected after Gray and Curry are currently in the league. Curry obviously hasn't worked out well. A decent back up center taken at the 49th pick is a pretty good find.
Did anybody bother to watch the Sacremento game. Hawes barely got off the bench for one of the worst teams in the league and when he did he produced absolutely nothing.
When/if Noah gets starters minutes, he gets you a mini double double, at least 10 points and 10 rebounds. Noah has his issues, but his biggest problem is our midget loving coach.
very bad list. The guy picked right after Gordon? Shaun Livingston. How's he doing now? The guy picked right after Deng? Rafeal Arujo. How's he doing now? That 2004 was a very weak draft class, so you can't at all blame Paxson for taking Deng and Gordon. His options were very limited. As far as all the second round picks go, you could make a top ten list of any general managers "bad" second round picks. There's a reason the majority of those guys never make it to the league.
eddy curry should be top 5
This Matt is very smart who can see Ben Gordon is a very bad pick. Drafting Iggy over BG in 2004 is a no brain (Childress is better than BG as well, not to mention there were some good bigs). Also, see quite a few players drafted after BG have become better or much better players than BG. Personally, I think BG is the worst one that Pax has drafted (among lottery picks). If the Bulls had Iggy who can guard Hamilton (Kirk has no problem guard Billups instead of guarding a 6-7 SG), they would beat the Pistons in 2007 even with an incompetent coach in Skiles and went to the Conf. Final at least. I have never seen a GM (in the past 20 yrs) wastes a #3 pick on a defenseless and ballhandling-deficient, vastly undersized 2 guard. You don’t use such a high lottery pick on a small guard unless he was an outstanding PG in College. BG had never played PG at the college, even though that UConn team had a very average college PG but he was still a better PG than BG. After seeing Pax drafted BG using a #3 pick, my friends and I said Pax is one of the stupidest GMs. Worse, Pax holds on to his mistake and offered him much more money than he’s worthy.
How could Pax and his front office people not see that BG’s negative aspects (cannot guard anyone/doesn’t even want to put any effort on defense, is TO prone, very selfish with a vastly inflated ego, and incredibly greedy and delusional) much OUTWEIGH his positive aspect (shooting ability)? Even his shooting hurts the Bulls winning chance more often than helped (because he often goes one on one or takes bad shots that disrupt the team’s offensive flow). Anyone who says the Bulls cannot score without BG is knowledge-deficient. Look at the last year stats, there is no significant difference in Bulls’ PPG between games with BG and those without BG. Note during the period BG missed games, Deng also missed those games. Had the Bulls have Deng in those games, they would score more pts without BG (because the Bulls offense flow would be better and everyone’s score goes up). On the other hand, the opponents’ PPG is significantly higher in games with BG than in those without BG. BG’s score is not additive to the team, he simply takes his teammates’ opportunity away and gives up more pts to the opposing teams in the process. How many pts BG scores have little correlation with Bulls winning %. See this year, his PPG is 20+, but the Bulls winning record is lousy and did not beat a single good-to-elite team with full strength and lost to the bottom teams repeatedly (when Deng and Hinrich were out). On the other hand, when BG scored 12 pts or fewer (usually because he didn’t get to take many shots or played limited min), the Bulls winning% is 90%.
Pretty dumb list. As others have said, the inclusion of Aaron Gray is preposterous. So is the idea that failing to fill the Bulls' need for inside scoring with the 36th pick constitutes some egregious failure. None of these picks, save for Tyrus Thomas, was clearly bad. The Noah pick was borderline; Spencer Hawes would've made more sense given the Bulls' need for inside scoring, and has proved to be the better player. Stuckey has turned out to be a great player, but no one thought he'd be this good, and it would've made little sense for the Bulls to draft him with all of the guards they already had.
It's easy to make a list of dumb picks if all it takes for a pick to be dumb is that some better player was drafted later on. And yet, the JamesOn Curry pick doesn't even meet that low threshold. Is there such a thing as a bad pick at 51?
This list is dumb.
Deng and Rose are probably his only good pics...The problem with Paxson is his keeps drafting arguably "good" individual players that don't play together in a team. And then he expects coaches like Skiles to force them to work together...even though Ben Gordon is a ball hog and half of the team is inconsistent. I'm pretty sure any guard in the NBA can beat Noah in a one-on-one match and most grade school kids can shoot better than him.
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